Curse

madman24749 · May 12, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Phycic Instability shouldnt be 3 seconds but 2 seconds would do the trick, 1 second does very little to shutdown a target but 2 would do heaps
Even 1.5 seconds would make the hex a lot more useful
Oh and mesmers are the best interrupters period
Wanna try interrupting me when I have 16 in FC?
A ranger couldn't do it but another mesmer COULD
You cant prove me wrong on that one lol

XvArchonvX · May 12, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Human Reflex = .25 second
Bow interrupt cast = .5 second

Add that you get 3/4 second and it's impossible.

Find me in game and lets see you can interrupt my 3/4 cast tease
(yes, even in melee range you can't interrupt 3/4 cast)

It's possible, but not from reflexes. Watching a battle can give you many clues as to what actions your enemies are going to take. Counting recharge times of skills that are spammed as well as waiting for kiters to stop moving are a few of many actions that can tell you when to use an interrupt.

Saying that you can interupt a 3/4th second spell is realistic, but saying you can do so from pure reflex alone is not.

Mylon · May 12, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman24749

Phycic Instability shouldnt be 3 seconds but 2 seconds would do the trick, 1 second does very little to shutdown a target but 2 would do heaps
Even 1.5 seconds would make the hex a lot more useful
Oh and mesmers are the best interrupters period
Wanna try interrupting me when I have 16 in FC?
A ranger couldn't do it but another mesmer COULD
You cant prove me wrong on that one lol

Why would I want to interrupt a mesmer? Their annoying hexes just make good fodder for Dwayna's Kiss (which is powerful because of the number of necros out there, of which I've been playing one.

), and their more powerful hexes would be removed, sometimes even with a pre-cast holy veil. All of their interrupts (which are 1/4th second) are pretty much impossible to interrupt, given 0.2 seconds of lag before you see they're casting and 0.2 seconds of lag before your interrupt goes through means such a feat is isn't possible, at least by reflex as mentioned.

I just don't perceive mesmers as a threat anymore. Sure, there's Migrane, Ineptitude, and even Power Block, but as I said, other classes can do roughly the same but better. The only thing I generally worry about is backfire and diversion, and I don't even see backfire all too often anymore.

B Ephekt · May 12, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Human Reflex = .25 second
Bow interrupt cast = .5 second

Add that you get 3/4 second and it's impossible.

Find me in game and lets see you can interrupt my 3/4 cast tease
(yes, even in melee range you can't interrupt 3/4 cast)

Most interrupter/infuser players' reflexes are more along the lines of .1-.2s. Furthermore, you can tell a spell is being cast even before the activation bar starts, so yes, it's very possible to hit 3/4s casts consistently as a ranger. Saying that 3/4s casts can't be interrupted even at melee range is patently false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

As for interrupting... Interrupts by themselves are not very powerful. They can sink a kill, but so can extra damage, deep wound, etc. Rangers get the bonus of being able to deal damage as they interrupt, interrupt any skill (including those annoying rituals), with one of their better interrupts even disabling the interrupted skill for a good period of time, all while doing damage. Mesmers are limited by expensive skills, slow recharges, and lackluster side effects on top of the interrupts.

In pve you may be correct, but in pvp mesmer are still quite powerful. That's one of the main reason they will never see the buffs most pvers want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman24749

Phycic Instability shouldnt be 3 seconds but 2 seconds would do the trick, 1 second does very little to shutdown a target but 2 would do heaps
Even 1.5 seconds would make the hex a lot more useful
Oh and mesmers are the best interrupters period
Wanna try interrupting me when I have 16 in FC?
A ranger couldn't do it but another mesmer COULD
You cant prove me wrong on that one lol

Why the hell would anyone run 16 fast casting? There is absolutely no reason to ever run more than 9-10, even in mantra of recovery builds. Running such high FC only gimps your other abilities.

lightblade · May 12, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

http://www.reflexgame.com/

proof your reflex is .1 to .2

remember it'll take less than .2 for ranger to interrupt.

lightblade · May 12, 2007, 06:35 AM // 06:35

I scored one .19 out of 20 tries

B Ephekt · May 12, 2007, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I don't have to "proof" anything. I know what I can do, I know what any decent ranger can do.

I've taken similar tests when they were posted over on the iQ and QQ forums. I don't do well in them (I average around ~.22) because I'm slow at mouse clicks. I can interrupt faster because I use my keyboard to activate skills like any decent player.

Furthermore, the ranger only has to be under .2 if he interrupts based on the skill activation bar. I've already covered how you can tell a skill is being cast before the bar even shows up. This is pretty basic game mechanics here.

bhavv · May 12, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

You havnt played a mesmer untill you have tried this:

[skill]power return[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]leech signet[/skill][skill]mantra of persistence[/skill][skill]illusion of pain[/skill][skill]Migraine[/skill][skill]frustration[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Garanteed shutdown for any caster, if theres no casters, just spam illusion of pain

lightblade · May 12, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

I don't have to "proof" anything. I know what I can do, I know what any decent ranger can do.

I've taken similar tests when they were posted over on the iQ and QQ forums. I don't do well in them (I average around ~.22) because I'm slow at mouse clicks. I can interrupt faster because I use my keyboard to activate skills like any decent player.

Furthermore, the ranger only has to be under .2 if he interrupts based on the skill activation bar. I've already covered how you can tell a skill is being cast before the bar even shows up. This is pretty basic game mechanics here.

Don't tell me that, I've never seen any ranger that doesn't spam interrupts. As in...Distracting Show immediately follow with Savage Shot.

This is getting out of hand and off-topic. If you cannot prove yourself or find any that can prove that. Then you lost the arguement and Mesmer > Ranger.

Mylon · May 12, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

I don't have to "proof" anything. I know what I can do, I know what any decent ranger can do.

I've taken similar tests when they were posted over on the iQ and QQ forums. I don't do well in them (I average around ~.22) because I'm slow at mouse clicks. I can interrupt faster because I use my keyboard to activate skills like any decent player.

Furthermore, the ranger only has to be under .2 if he interrupts based on the skill activation bar. I've already covered how you can tell a skill is being cast before the bar even shows up. This is pretty basic game mechanics here.

So what do mesmers do while they're waiting for their opponent to cast a spell? Umm... Wanding? Meanwhile that ranger's bow is still putting pressure.

lightblade · May 12, 2007, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

So what do mesmers do while they're waiting for their opponent to cast a spell? Umm... Wanding? Meanwhile that ranger's bow is still putting pressure.

Nope, I keep my eyes on 4 targets the same time. Diversion for monk, Blinding Surge for warrior and lastly Power Leak for Aegis and misc eles. And always the "T" for spiking.

4 Targets are enough to keep me busy with spells.

lightblade · May 12, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I don't know why I'm arguing Mesmer is strong now. It's not like it'll do me any good. On the contrary, I should stop arguing and make Anet keep buffing Mesmer's interrupts. It already got buffed once didn't it?

B Ephekt · May 12, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Don't tell me that, I've never seen any ranger that doesn't spam interrupts. As in...Distracting Show immediately follow with Savage Shot.

Go watch a top 50 match on obs mode. Any ranger you'd actually want playing for your guild can hit 3/4s based by being close and watching the caster twitch before they cast.

Quote:

This is getting out of hand and off-topic. If you cannot prove yourself or find any that can prove that. Then you lost the arguement and Mesmer > Ranger.

You need to try reading before replying. I'm actually argueing for mesmers being superior interrupters. I'm just tackling your false statements about ranger abilities.

I'm sure there are plenty of peole who could prove you wrong, but I doubt they care enough to do so. I just don't care enough to waste time scrimming some random person just to prove a point either. If you want go post on the QQ forums and ask for a scrim, I'm sure someone will be bored enough.

Furthermore, you're asking for evidence while you have neglected to provide any yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

So what do mesmers do while they're waiting for their opponent to cast a spell? Umm... Wanding? Meanwhile that ranger's bow is still putting pressure.

OK, you've pretty much proved that you don't pvp at any decent level. Rangers don't do dps. Period. Rangers deal pressure through degen. So, like I said previously, unless you're relying on the ranger for degen, a mesmer is a better choice for disruption.

What you seem to not realize is that mesmer provide pressure of their own through disruption and shutdown; the create holes in the enemy's defense that allow you to get damage through. You can't just throw random damage at your enemies in organized pvp and win like you can in pve.

The Hand Of Death · May 12, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

To be honest, mesmers suck. This is just scraping the tip of the iceberg. I've given up on even including full mesmers in my PvE team (except in Echovald where the mesmer hero is actually better than the other pathetic choices like Charge!) or playing them in RA/TA. I use them as a secondary to get a couple of interrupts and diversion, but as a full class they don't do enough damage and they don't do enough shutdown.

Let's see... I can attempt to interrupt my opponent casting Signet of Devotion... Oh wait, mesmers have a hard time interrupting non-spell skills. When they do interrupt something, they often do some kind of trivial effect and have a long recharge time on it. Edenial does nothing when the enemy switches to a +30e/-2eregen set just to cast a spell and then switches back.

Rangers make better interrupters since they can just spam it and do decent damage at the same time, plus one of their best spammable interrupts also disables the skill, which mesmers only have Power Block to compete with. Rangers can even do edenial with debilitating shot and quickening zephyr (plus maybe an attack recharge like oath shot). Necros make better hex spammers and can do edenial as well in the form of negative regen, plus spam some nice hexes to kill opponents like Insidious Parasite.

Yeah... All of the other classes have gotten a nice inflation of power since Prophecies, or maybe people have just found more optimal builds. Mesmers haven't really gotten any better.

Mesmer are great at shutdown and do not suck. Skills that people think suck in PvP do fairly great in PvE. An enemy under backfire will cast through it until the effect would kill them, such as yesterday I ran into one of those spell spamming bosses, backfire did around 1,000 damage and the boss was dead in about 6 seconds. Wastrel's worry is a great boss killer in prophecies, and wiki also says nightfall, because bosses have hex resistance so the hex ends quicker making the effect come up quicker.

The mesmer doesn't suck it is obvious that you aren't playing it right.

To the poster, I think those skill do need a change, especially ignorance because its effect is good, but it is never worth it to bring into battle because of the high energy cost. I really like the idea of tease, especially since I want to see how that may be able to be used in PvP.

One skill I think may be used more if made a little better is signet of illusions, making the cast 1 second instead of 2. Don't get me wrong, I made a skill stealing build centered around the elite, but it would be more useful in my opinion.

Kratos Angel · May 12, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I would like to say that interrupt 3/4 cast time spell with a bow is possible. Personally, I'm abslutly unable to do that, but when me and my previous guild faced EW, I as playing a flagger (monk) and a ranger was attacking me, he interrupted almost all my 3/4 sec cast by reflex, even If I was doing cast/interrupt my self etc .... He could see that and missed only 1 interrupt on 7

Div · May 12, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Yes my ranger can... In a matter of fact my ranger has interrupted 1/2 second cast time spells as well. If you have good reflexes a ranger is much better for interrupting.

I sense bs. There aren't any 1/2 second spells in the game. And if you're referring to a fast cast mesmer, how do you know they're casting at 1/2 second :P

The fact that mesmer can cast interrupt at around 0.15 seconds instead of 0.25 already makes their interrupts faster and more reliable, plus no arrow travel time, blocking, blinding, etc.

XvArchonvX · May 12, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You havnt played a mesmer untill you have tried this:

[skill]power return[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]leech signet[/skill][skill]mantra of persistence[/skill][skill]illusion of pain[/skill][skill]Migraine[/skill][skill]frustration[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Garanteed shutdown for any caster, if theres no casters, just spam illusion of pain

You should really look at the [skill]Web of Disruption[/skill] + [skill]Drain Delusions[/skill] combo. Power Return is great for PvE, but you won't want to be supplying your target with energy if you can help it in PvP. This combo also allows you to interupt non-spells a lot more often than once every 45 seconds with leech sig. You also get an energy gain even if you interupt a non-spell.

Numa Pompilius · May 12, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I like mesmers, but the energy cost and recharge times of the spells mean that if I need an interrupter, I take a ranger. "Interrupting almost any spell AND signet every five seconds, having decent tankability, and no energy management issues", beats "interrupting any spell OR signet every 20-30 seconds, no tankability, and egregious, constant, energy management issues".

And, like someone pointed out, the ultimate in PvE interrupt is dazed. Rangers have several skills which easily daze, mesmers not a single one.

As a secondary profession mesmer is great, inspired hex & powerdrain look good on almost any bar, but frankly I see very little reason to be a primary mesmer.

bhavv · May 12, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

You should really look at the [skill]Web of Disruption[/skill] + [skill]Drain Delusions[/skill] combo. Power Return is great for PvE, but you won't want to be supplying your target with energy if you can help it in PvP. This combo also allows you to interupt non-spells a lot more often than once every 45 seconds with leech sig. You also get an energy gain even if you interupt a non-spell.

ooh, i never saw that one lol. I'll give it try but I think the energy might run dry.

The energy return isnt a problem in RA though, as it provides complete shutdown in most cases anyway.

lightblade · May 12, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

You should really look at the [skill]Web of Disruption[/skill] + [skill]Drain Delusions[/skill] combo. Power Return is great for PvE, but you won't want to be supplying your target with energy if you can help it in PvP. This combo also allows you to interupt non-spells a lot more often than once every 45 seconds with leech sig. You also get an energy gain even if you interupt a non-spell.

That's actually not bad, I used it before. But due to the dependency of one another, I stopped using it. Because as I said in one of my previous post, I need to keep multiple targets interrupted.